I read somewhere that the Navy used rifle scopes in some of its fighter jets
for spotting other planes. Is this true? And were they mounted in the
cockpit or used like binoculars?



D

Done on the Phantom in some squadrons. Lined up with boresight. With radar
lock and bogey on the nose, you'd lean forward and get a magnified view and
hopefully an early VID. Somewhat awkward to use.

R / John

"DDAY" > wrote in message
.net...
>I read somewhere that the Navy used rifle scopes in some of its fighter
>jets
> for spotting other planes. Is this true? And were they mounted in the
> cockpit or used like binoculars?
>
>
>
> D

John Carrier wrote:
> Done on the Phantom in some squadrons. Lined up with boresight. With radar
> lock and bogey on the nose, you'd lean forward and get a magnified view and
> hopefully an early VID. Somewhat awkward to use.

Going back in time, Galland had a similar sight set up in his BoB-era
Bf 109 E. It didn't work in practice so he went back to the old
fashioned Revi.

v/r
Gordon
PS, nice to see you JC

FWIW I flew with a pair of 7x35 wide angle binocs in the F4. With a
radar lockon, select heat, fly the steering dot to the center of the
scope, and then the bogey was inside the gunsight reticle. Now the
binocs allowed ID at way beyond normal tallyho ranges. Also FWIW I
suggested to the VWingCo of the first ever A10 wing they try Bushnell's
1-4x variable power rifle scope to employ the 30mm at longer ranges.
The 2-mil pipper is just too big for use at such ranges even though the
gun is affective way out there. I guess that suggestion was 'filed';
never heard of it even being tried out.
Walt BJ

John Carrier wrote:
> "DDAY" > wrote in message
> .net...
>
>>I read somewhere that the Navy used rifle scopes in some of its fighter
>>jets
>>for spotting other planes. Is this true? And were they mounted in the
>>cockpit or used like binoculars?

> Done on the Phantom in some squadrons. Lined up with boresight.
With radar
> lock and bogey on the nose, you'd lean forward and get a magnified
view and
> hopefully an early VID. Somewhat awkward to use.

F-15 units were big on the practice, too, starting with the
AIMVAL/ACEVAL tests of 1977. One account is in Cecil Anderegg, _Sierra
Hotel_ (USAF History and Museums, 2001), p.161:

[...] The F–15, surprisingly to some, did not have the powerfully
magnified telescope, TISEO [Television Identification System,
Electro-Optical], that the F–4 carried. TISEO allowed the F–4 crew to
see what the radar was locked to and identify targets from many miles
away. The idea of TISEO was to give the crew enough time to identify the
target visually in order to fire a Sparrow before the target could shoot
at them. Since they had no such system, the F–15 pilots were
hard-pressed to get a Sparrow shot off before minimum range when the
rules of engagement required a visual identification. Often, they could
see the F–5 in the TD box as a black dot, yet still not positively
identify it until it was too late to shoot. Blue Force pilots rigged a
simple piece of equipment that made their problem much easier to solve.
They purchased a standard telescope of the type used on hunting rifles
and manufactured a bracket to attach the scope to the side of the HUD
glass. On the HUD was a “W” symbol that always showed exactly where the
nose of the airplane was pointed during flight. Before takeoff, the
pilot would note where the W was projected on the ground in front of his
aircraft. He then leaned forward and used two small adjusting screws on
the scope bracket to tweak the scope to exactly that same place. Then,
in the air, when the radar was locked to a target, he had only to fly
the W so that it was exactly over the TD box, then look through his
rifle scope. If he did those things carefully, the target would be in
the scope field of view, and he could identify it in plenty of time to
fire his Sparrow. The Blue pilots nicknamed this clever modification
Eagle Eye, and it quickly swept throughout the growing F–15 community.
It was not long before every F–15 awaiting takeoff at the end of the
runway at Langley or Bitburg had a rifle scope attached to the side of
the HUD.

[https://www.airforcehistory.hq.af.mil/Publications/fulltext/SierraHotel.pdf]

"Blair Haworth" wrote in message .net...
> John Carrier wrote:
>>>I read somewhere that the Navy used rifle scopes in some of its fighter
>>>jets
>>>for spotting other planes. Is this true? And were they mounted in the
>>>cockpit or used like binoculars?
>
> > Done on the Phantom in some squadrons.

We heard it was to help Single Engine Weenies find their Dicks! :-)

In the single engine F-8, one had to slip in the cockpit carefully because
the canopy rails were a bit narrow and made fitting those big brass ones
(and their associated offensive equipment) difficult to fit into the
airplane.

R / John

PS Falcon 109

"nmg175" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Blair Haworth" wrote in message .net...
>> John Carrier wrote:
>>>>I read somewhere that the Navy used rifle scopes in some of its fighter
>>>>jets
>>>>for spotting other planes. Is this true? And were they mounted in the
>>>>cockpit or used like binoculars?
>>
>> > Done on the Phantom in some squadrons.
>
> We heard it was to help Single Engine Weenies find their Dicks! :-)
>

On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 18:34:19 -0500, "John Carrier" >
wrote:

>In the single engine F-8, one had to slip in the cockpit carefully because
>the canopy rails were a bit narrow and made fitting those big brass ones
>(and their associated offensive equipment) difficult to fit into the
>airplane.
>
>R / John

Are you going to require me to point out that Keith Ferris' famous
painting "Big Brass Ones" isn't of an F-8? It's of an F-105G flown by
John Revak and Stan Goldstein.

Or need I mention that the wheelbarrow rack at the back of the
standard F-105 revetment?



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

"Ed Rasimus" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 18:34:19 -0500, "John Carrier" >
> wrote:
>
>>In the single engine F-8, one had to slip in the cockpit carefully because
>>the canopy rails were a bit narrow and made fitting those big brass ones
>>(and their associated offensive equipment) difficult to fit into the
>>airplane.
>>
>>R / John
>
> Are you going to require me to point out that Keith Ferris' famous
> painting "Big Brass Ones" isn't of an F-8? It's of an F-105G flown by
> John Revak and Stan Goldstein.
>
> Or need I mention that the wheelbarrow rack at the back of the
> standard F-105 revetment?

Another notable single-engine beast, albeit a shore-based one (note the
newsgroup). Had the disadvantage of a long flight over heavily defended
territory combined with a "here we come, try and stop us" tactical
philosophy imposed from on-high. But at least there was a fair piece of
concrete awaiting its return.

R / John